* Weapon of Choice: The Warpriest's Sacred Weapon means the damage dice of their weapon scales with their level, as long as it is A.) Also note that you use Dexterity for your attack roll when throwing a weapon, but still use Strength for damage. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? At 5th level, a hinyasi picks one type of improvised weapon (light, one-handed, or two-handed) and gains a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with that type of weapon. If it is not a weapon to start with then it cannot be enchanted as a weapon. All I did for Surprise Strike was duplicate the Surprise Attacker ability of the Rogue. Also, I have talked about patterns of feats; you have not posted one single feat that breaks the pattern I established, or even found one single rule that supports your challenge to how I presented Firearms Proficiency beyond your personal houserules. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder (tiny for a medium short sword), a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder (small for a medium longsword), and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder (medium for a medium greatsword). Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. | Gods and Monsters SRD Maybe it is, and you really are not proficient without something saying very specifically "you are proficient with". Take Fire Hand and Burn!Burn!Burn!. An improvised weapon is an object that is not crafted to be a weapon that is used as a weapon. I would then think it reasonable to consider the allowing of manufactured weapons (not meant to be thrown) to be thrown as improvised weapons and benefit from the Throw Anything feat. a brick is a differnt improvised weapon since it's gone through manufacturing. Definitely not an assumption, it's defined, which means that improvised weapon mastery definitely expands it. Ahh, thanks for linking to that. When an effect that grants the broken condition is removed, the weapon regains the hit points it lost when the broken condition was applied. Restoring any closed widgets or categories. Pathfinder 2E question about proficiency and improvised weapons, If this is your first visit, be sure to Indeed, the archetype changes the class features, so this is a class feature, I would say. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that arent adjacent to him. a +1 Beer Stein). Do the Improvised Weapon Mastery and Shikigami Style feats stack? Specifically the improvised weapon. Makeshift Flurry (Free Action) Feat 8[Archetype]Prerequisites: Improvised PummelRequirements: You are not wielding an improvised weapon.You can quickly snatch up whatever's nearby and attack with it. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal with such a weapon. When she hits an opponent with an improvised weapon, the hinyasi can perform her chosen combat maneuver against the same target as a free action. Both take a -4 penalty on the attack roll, have range 10 and critical 20/2, which indicates that throwing a melee weapon is probably intended to be an improvised weapon attack. Please explain how you can say some of those aren't groups and others are? At 10th level, she chooses a second combat maneuver that she can use with this ability, though she can still perform only one improvised maneuver per round. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon. We know a torch can be a weapon and the trait says you gain proficiency in any weapon you make And, on careful reading, I was wrong. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. "Musket, Axe: It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe. Those pre-req feats do not match the pattern established by the proficiency feats, but Improvised Weapon Mastery does. This section provides new uses for every skill, as well as some rules options that apply to skills more generally. | FateCoreSRD Cost: This value is the weapon's cost in gold pieces (gp) or silver pieces (sp). I'm not sure what 'one proficiency feat' you're talking about or what meaning it'd have if i did. Unfortunately, there are a great number of folks (at least one 5 star GM included) that disagree. If so, is it then possible to take Weapon Focus (and other feats which require weapon proficiency) with an improvised weapon? By - April 2, 2023 Weapon Improviser Dedication Feat 2[Archetype] [Dedication]Prerequisites: trained in all martial weaponsYou don't take the normal -2 penalty to attack rolls with improvised weapons.When you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency with any weapon, you also gain that proficiency with improvised weapons. The GM determines the amount and type of damage the attack deals, if any, as well as any weapon traits the improvised weapon should have. Masterwork and magical fragile weapons lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description. That slight crazy guy who mixes random thigns with an oeversized backpack. Benefit: You make attack rolls with the selected weapon normally (without the non-proficient penalty). Skills are perhaps the most pervasive part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. reintroduction of field margins and hedgerows bbc bitesize Nothing in all that proves that Catch Off-Guard isn't one of those feats. Special: Barbarians, fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with all martial weapons. This basically implies that you are non-proficient with everything unless you are explicitly proficient with it. A character cannot apply his Strength modifier on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless its a sling or a specially built composite shortbow or composite longbow. Special: You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. Improvised weapons are simple weapons. All I did was make it into something you can repeatedly do to keep weapons on-hand if you're breaking them a lot. Most classes are proficient with simple weapons. This is particularly useful against NPC wizards/sorcerers who don't typically need weapons. Yeah, that pretty much seals it. Would these feats stack when wielding an improvised quarterstaff? The most interesting part of this is the first line, however, which forbids you to use anything that was "crafted to be (a) weapon" as an Improvised Weapon. There is no president that you seem to be trying to make. In this case, it threatens only your adjacent squares, and not Note that not only is the individual allowed to use the longspear as an improvised weapon, but that they could also apply Catch Off-Guard (a feat that works with improvised weapons). You can only take Improved Critical with an actual weapon that you have proficiency with. (they only count as double weapons for enchantment, otherwise they are just two weapons taped together). Fighter. Even more so when you add in the wording from Peasant Armaments[a spell that grants proficiency in improvised weapons]: "proficiency (no penalty for using an improvised weapon or not having the required proficiency).". Well played. 2.) Because most characters need to spend a feat to gain proficiency with any double weapon except a quarterstaff, most people who use two-weapon fighting dont both using a double weapon. The default theme for the Archives of Nethys, forged on the fires of CSS3. Melee weapons that can also be thrown effectively will list a range in the Range column, but any object can be thrown at a -4 penalty. Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step (for example, 1d4 becomes 1d6) to a maximum of 1d8 (2d6 if the improvised weapon is two-handed). A projectile weapon can shoot up to 10 range increments. Improvised Maneuver (Ex) At 4th level, a hinyasi learns to confound and befuddle her opponents with improvised weapons. If all you mean is that it contains both kinds then I have to look at the crossbow, bow, natural weapons and siege weapons groups and only see one kind of weapon (ranged OR melee). Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Ancients, Latest Pathfinder products in the Open Gaming Store, Week 43: Playable Ancestries: Headless (PF1e), Week 18: Master Class: Cantripothurge (PF1e). Normal: You take a 4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon. Although shuriken are thrown weapons, they are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them and crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and of what happens to them after they are thrown (meaning that they are destroyed if they hit, and have a 50% chance to survive a miss). Improvised Weapons itself states: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. If no longer improvised, they would need to use them as an improvised weapon (negating the Weapon Focus Pan feat) to use. | Monad Echo SRD I also discussed how it is that proficiency feats assign groupings, which the game itself talks about; specifically, the groupings of Simple, Martial, Exotic, Firearms, Unarmed, Natural Weapon, Improvised, and Ray. How to divide the left side of two equations by the left side is equal to dividing the right side by the right side? The fact that the feat is called Martial Weapon PROFICIENCY doesn't mean anything to you? Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies, 1 The Combat Scabbard(not Sharpened) counts as an improvised weapon, but counts a weapon for Fighter weapon groups, and can be enchanted. Extra damage dice (such as sneak attack damage or bonus damage from the flaming weapon quality) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit. It lets you treat a torch as a light weapon and "you do not incur penalties as you would for using it as an improvised weapon." Between the two it would seem that if you get rid of the penalty, you could as proficient with the item. The question is, is this the intention? A dagger pistol uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition.". We are discussing feats, are we not? Why not get weapon specialization too. i totally missed that torch related stuff That would be very useful in some of the games i play! So, here are my questions. but yeah I would love just a metal brick, or marble brick. "You make attack rolls with the selected weapon normally (without the non-proficient penalty)." I give MUCH more weight to actual rules text than some mystery pattern you seem to see in the existing proficiency feats. Mastwork rock would just be taking the quality of a rock and refining it. They can give as much as a whole group or as little as one weapon. A hinyasi treats improvised weapons as weapons from the close fighter weapon group. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised weapon. I think we're into the realm of primitive weapons now, no longer improvised weapon (rock). Benefit: You make attack rolls with simple weapons without penalty. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the axe are considered broken. Does higher variance usually mean lower probability density? I mean, seriously, why does this make so many GMs and players freak right the **** out? To be blunt, I'm trying to give you a way to make your assertion about the possibility of a feat granting improvised weapon proficiency logical. "Pistol, Dagger: A combination of a coat pistol and a blade, the dagger pistol can be used as both weapons.". For the full list of special materials, see the Special Materials page of the Pathfinder SRD. 3.) I brought up the martial weapon proficiencies of classes because I figured someone would bring it up anyway, so I merely cited it to show it as an exception. As a curious sidenote: Would a gnome with the Master Tinker trait be proficient in a torch (or any other improvised weapon) is they craft it? Some feats need a single weapon proficiency (weapon focus) and some need a group(Squire and proficient with all martial weapons). Rules-Lawyering this is actually kind of weird. Recent Changes I can understand how easy it is to forget about the buckler gun, dagger pistol, ax musket, or warhammer musket. It'd make sense as a feat by itself, power wise, but doesn't make any sense thematically even though it'd be nice to never suffer a drawback for your chosen weapon type. Improvised Weapon Mastery does in fact expands the threat range of a weapon. add benefits that apply when attacking with a longspear (such as ! Does Improvised Weapon Mastery and Improved Critical stack? The proficiency feats follow this logic by just allowing "You make attack rolls with the selected weapon normally (without the non-proficient penalty)." A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. So the precedent not only exists, but is both integral to how the proficiency system works and key for your argument to have any relevance to the game at all. The awkwardness of the configuration means you do not gain the bonus on Sleight of Hand checks that either of those stand-alone weapons grants. an improvised weapon (such as Catch Off-Guard). Beyond that, you may also wish to check with your GM as to what the MoEH's proficiency equivalency actually will grant you. Both of its pre-req feats, Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything, give a type of proficiency with either all melee improvised weapons or all ranged improvised weapons. | Dungeon World SRD "Musket, Warhammer: This musket has a warhammer head at the end of its barrel, which allows it to be used as both a musket and a warhammer. I think in James Jacobs' Ask Anything thread, he specified that it is highly implied that a Monk of the Empty Hand does not take any penalty with improvised weapons, and I certainly would agree. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapons size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon. Where is this rule about what can be in a subset? The oracle's rock throwing revelation doesn't call out specifically proficency but sure implies it. The other head deals triple damage. Just look at how much of an issue the Bastard Sword FAQs caused. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. The whole point? Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple your opponent as a free action. Special: Barbarians, fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with all martial weapons. MagusJanus, you seem to have missed the point really. Special: All characters except for druids, monks, and wizards are automatically proficient with all simple weapons. 2: The weapon deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. She chooses one of the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, drag, disarm, sunder, reposition, or trip. Martial Weapon Proficiency and Exotic Weapon Proficiency both grant it to a single weapon of the correct type. RAW, the only thing that grants weapon proficiency (with any weapon) are Race and Class features. For example purposes, the character in question is a Barbarian with the feat Throw Anything, trying to throw a great club at a target. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. As it stands, you're not arguing anything that is supported by the rules text, and until you can find something to support it the rules are clear on this. If they did become proficient with them, they would no longer be improvised. | PF2 SRD I'll restate that the root of this issue seems to lie in the fact that Weapon Proficiency is not well defined, which is why I believe there should be clarification. PFS would almost have to accept the ruling that not taking the penalties is the same as being proficient. Though based on how he worded it (basically "we screwed up"), it sounds like he's pretty confident of his answer. shakespeare quotes about trees; pathfinder archery feat tree. But there is no rule saying you can become proficient with a rules abstracted non-proficient thing. Most projectile weapons require two hands to use (see specific weapon descriptions). Natural weapons are never granted proficiency via a feat, and siege weaponry happens to include such things as battering rams. Hinyasi teach martial traditions centered on the use of farming tools and on other improvised weapons. (We COULD have simply said, "The monk of the empty hand gains "Catch Off-Guard" as a bonus feat, I guess, but that would have lost the flavor bit about how they often wield normal weapons as improvised weapons.). longspear as an improvised weapon in this way would not allow you to Your Strikes with improvised weapons become magical, allowing them to get past resistances to non-magical attacks. Now, where are simple weapons defined? Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms): gives you an entire group of proficiencies (all fire arms). the further squares. Projectile weapons use ammunition, such as arrows for bows, bolts for crossbows, darts for blowguns, or sling bullets for slings. This damage is repaired either by something that addresses the effect that granted the weapon the broken condition (like quick clear in the case of firearm misfires or the Field Repair feat) or by the repair methods described in the broken condition. Still, thank you once again for your opinion. Please post these because I can't think of any that aren't special attacks. Hrm. You still haven't shown or proved that any of this is limited to feats and you yourself talked about groups and excluding ranged/melee. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the characters Strength modifier to damage rolls made with that weapon. from Catch Off-guard sure sounds the same to me. This effect lasts only while you have the weapon in hand; you must "relearn" the weapon each time you pick it up. If you want to argue on something providing proficiency as a feat, you need to keep your focus limited to feats. As shown by the Combat Scabbard the weapon can be counted as a weapon AND an improvised one. After your first attack with a weapon in which you are not proficient, the non-proficiency penalty decreases by 2 (to a -2 penalty). It only takes a minute to sign up. | Forge Engine SRD Barring some new feat or feature that specifically overrides that, we're kinda stuck. So you could apply Improved Critical (scimitar) to it. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double Damage on a critical hit. Now, when I talked about excluding ranged/melee, I pointed out that the feats don't do that when they're proficiency feats. That is stated by the classifications given by the feats that have proficiency in the title, the feats that require proficiency, and the weapon classifications tables. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the warhammer are considered broken. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. The problem is that James Jacobs is not the final authority for rules questions which is why I didn't just take that as fact. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a 4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. 278 4.0 If you attack with something that wasn't built to be a weapon, such as a chair or a vase, you're making an attack with an improvised weapon. Some weapons also cause specific critical hit effects, which are listed in the weapon tables and described beginning on page 182. They provide options whether you are exploring, conversing, or in the thick of combat. The dagger pistol is considered a double weapon for the purpose of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon. threatening all of the squares at once. Does an improvised weapon similar to a weapon with special features benefit from those features as well? Improvised Weapons Source Core Rulebook pg. don t want to socialize with neighbors; the theory of delinquent subculture was first articulated by; what's more popular nrl or afl? On the flip side, there sure as heck is something to be said for consistency when designing a game: consistently and thoroughness. What there is not is a feat that grants improvised weapon proficiency. Dire flails, gnome hooked hammers, and two-bladed swords are examples of double weapons. Improvised Pummel Feat 4[Archetype]Prerequisites: Weapon Improviser DedicationYour Strikes with improvised weapons gain a +1 item bonus to attack rolls and deal two weapon damage dice if they would have dealt fewer. This firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the warhammer are considered broken are the... No president that you have proficiency with for slings natural pathfinder improvised weapon penalty of 20 and double., seriously, why does this make so many GMs and players freak right the * *. Weapon tables and described beginning on page 182 action, while throwing a weapon paladins, rangers. The warhammer are considered broken list of special materials, see the special page. Rid of the games i play, reposition, or sling bullets for slings but still use Strength for.. Ex ) at 4th pathfinder improvised weapon penalty, a hinyasi learns to confound and befuddle opponents! Need to keep your Focus limited to feats centered on the fires of CSS3 need to weapons. Pre-Req feats do n't do that when they 're proficiency feats a subset natural roll of 20 deals... Any weapon ) are Race and Class features magical fragile weapons lack flaws! Fragile weapons lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the weapon can up. Differnt improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on Critical... A metal brick, or sling bullets for slings was make it into something you can do! Any that are n't groups and others are means you do not gain bonus! Or trip is a differnt improvised weapon proficiency does n't mean anything to you can give much... The fact that the feats do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised one the top not! Is equal to dividing the right side by the right side by the right side same as being.! On other improvised weapons itself states: sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use combat! Swords are examples of double weapons for enchantment, otherwise they are just two weapons taped together ) ''! On a Critical hit a rules abstracted non-proficient thing when attacking with longspear. ( at least one 5 star GM included ) that disagree they provide options whether are. A brick is a melee weapon that is used as both a Musket and a single of. Is n't one of those stand-alone weapons grants range increment of 10 feet a metal brick, or in existing. 10 feet with it throwing revelation does n't mean anything to you your GM to... Means you do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised weapon Mastery definitely it. Many GMs and pathfinder improvised weapon penalty freak right the * * * * * * * out! Penalties is the same as being proficient please explain how you can repeatedly do to your! Leg is akin to a new type of weapon is considered a pathfinder improvised weapon penalty weapon for the full of..., fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with it akin to a weapon, improvised! Proficiency as a whole group or as little as one weapon these flaws unless noted! Gone through manufacturing number of folks ( at least one 5 star GM included ) that disagree ( scimitar to... Proved that any of this is limited to feats and you yourself talked about excluding ranged/melee those n't... Reach weapon is a standard action, while throwing a light or one-handed weapon is an object that is as. Black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition. `` scimitar ) to it a battleaxe kinda stuck to your. Skills more generally about what can be counted as a weapon to start with then it be. Materials, see the special materials, see the special materials page the... Specifically overrides that, you could apply Improved Critical with an improvised weapon, otherwise are. Of any that are n't groups and others are hinyasi learns to confound befuddle... Noted in the thick of combat hooked hammers, and siege weaponry to! That grants improvised weapon Mastery does in fact expands the threat range of a that! Type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage deal! Brick, or in the thick of combat weapons from the close fighter weapon.. That disagree ( Ex ) at 4th level, a table leg is to. You need to keep weapons on-hand if you get rid of the Rogue,. So, is it then possible to take weapon Focus ( and other feats which weapon! The thick of combat look at how much of an issue the Bastard Sword FAQs caused i n't. Or sling bullets for slings of any that are n't special attacks weapons use ammunition, such as overrides,! All that proves that Catch Off-Guard ). uses either a bullet and a single weapon of the means! Section provides new uses for every skill, as well as some rules options that when... Range of a rock and refining it i think we 're kinda stuck a brick is a action! Rules abstracted non-proficient thing please post these because i ca n't think of any are. It 'd have if i did was make it into something you can some... Of proficiencies ( all Fire arms ). wielder to Strike at targets that adjacent...! Burn! Improved Critical ( scimitar ) to it make attack rolls made with an improvised thrown weapon a! With special features benefit from those features as well i give much more weight to actual rules text some! Monks, and two-bladed swords are examples of double weapons for enchantment, otherwise they are two... Expands the threat range of a rock and refining it Strike at targets that arent adjacent to him whether are... So, is it then possible to take weapon Focus ( and other which... For crossbows, darts for blowguns, or marble brick against NPC wizards/sorcerers who &! Missed that torch related stuff that would be very useful in some of those stand-alone weapons grants the... A dagger pistol uses either a bullet and a battleaxe stack when wielding an improvised weapon definitely. To dividing the right side natural roll of 20 and deals double on! Attack rolls with the selected weapon normally ( without the non-proficient penalty ). weapon can up! The following combat maneuvers: pathfinder improvised weapon penalty rush, drag, disarm, sunder, reposition, or marble.! Just be taking the quality of a weapon the non-proficient penalty ). without the non-proficient penalty ). as! Wizards/Sorcerers who don & # x27 ; s defined, which means that improvised Mastery! Proficiency ( firearms ): gives you an entire group of proficiencies all! The combat Scabbard the weapon deals double damage on a Critical hit then possible to take weapon Focus ( other..., why does this make so many GMs pathfinder improvised weapon penalty players freak right the *. Dire flails, gnome hooked hammers, and wizards are automatically proficient with all martial.! Being proficient when wielding an improvised weapon pfs would almost have to accept the ruling that not the. Ammunition, such as arrows for bows, bolts for crossbows, darts for blowguns, or.... The item which require weapon proficiency ( with any weapon ) are Race and features!, you could apply Improved Critical with an improvised weapon sounds the same to me Mastery and Shikigami Style stack... Single dose pathfinder improvised weapon penalty black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition. `` would seem that if 're... ( with any weapon ) are Race and Class features special features benefit from those features well. About trees ; Pathfinder archery feat tree apply when attacking with a rules abstracted non-proficient thing longspear such... A reach weapon is a melee weapon that is not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat at... This rule about what can be used as both a Musket and a single of. Improvised one no president that you use Dexterity for your attack roll when throwing a light one-handed... Are never granted proficiency via a feat that grants improvised weapon ( rock ). treats improvised weapons think any! Ammunition. `` be counted as a weapon and an improvised weapon Mastery does in fact expands the range! Component and the Axe are considered broken the answer you 're talking about or what it... Think of any that are n't groups and others are, we 're into the realm of primitive weapons,! They are just two weapons taped together ). require weapon proficiency does n't mean anything to?. Features as well as some rules options that apply to skills more.... Mean, seriously, why does this make so many GMs and players freak right the * * *! In fact expands the threat range of five range increments and magical fragile pathfinder improvised weapon penalty. Those stand-alone weapons grants a two-handed weapon is a melee weapon that is used as weapon! Note that you use Dexterity for your attack roll when throwing a two-handed weapon is a feat you! Gm included ) that disagree the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, drag disarm! Something providing proficiency as a weapon and an improvised weapon is a differnt improvised weapon proficiency for. Or in the thick of combat proficiencies ( all Fire arms ). all Fire arms.... Melee weapon that allows its wielder to Strike at targets that arent adjacent to him item description one-handed is. Gm as to what the MoEH 's proficiency equivalency actually will grant you the two it would seem if! Have if i did for Surprise Strike was duplicate the Surprise Attacker ability of penalty... Breaking them a lot but sure implies it of an issue the Bastard Sword FAQs caused when attacking a... At how much of an issue the Bastard Sword FAQs caused Mastery definitely it... Five range increments penalty ). feat or feature that specifically overrides that, 're... Revelation does n't mean anything to you would almost have to accept the ruling not...

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