So recast companies will push this margin further and further. My issue is the price, these limited edition models ie: Eisenhorn, Sly, some of the Primaris models are just crazy expensive in comparison. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. Their pricing model hurts the growth of the hobby, it doesnt promote it. And what about the companies (from small to big) that produce miniatures based on comics/movies/books/games/characters/ without paying for a license? OUR EXISTENCE IS IN DANGER! I have a motto I live by it.regarding others if you lie,you can cheat,cheat you can steal, steal you can.lets just say theres many cases of some folks needing something bad ,dont have the money and try and steal for itthings escalate and then murder becomes involved. When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. Reap what you sow. Its all for love. So if people in the third world cant pay western prices having recasts means more of a hobby presence that pushes those who value original source into an ongoing if not growing stream of business. They should suffer! We havent got a global Netflix style service with all movies available. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/. You have not idea about, a totally ignorant. So what Jag is saying is if something is more expensive than he wants to pay, he is justified in stealing it. e.g. Lately all brands have seen how our creations are being reproduced illegally and without any scruples in a massive way. Theyre decent sculpts, decent quality minis. Check out Yoyhammer. The other aspect is quality of product, I know a lot of LoTR players would rather buy metal recasts from ebay rather than finecast versions of originally metal models from gw (basically all the elite troops were switched from metal to finecast when finecast first came out, so its not even the improved finecast). FJ was developed by a multicultural team of various beliefs. My FLGS has 20 tables filled with terrain whereas the GW has two tables in a tiny store away from any major shopping areas. You stole the profits from a miniature company that puts food on their table, heats their homes, takes their kids to sports events/cinema (more on this in a min)/etc. It is wrong but it is also stupid. While actual models are 3D printed from a computer file done by a minimun wage payed designer and then casted the most hollow and thin possible to minimize costs and reduce durability. I will always buy the original product when I can, but Im also going to buy high quality recasts for models that I need multiples of. Spikey Bits is a site about the hobby of tabletop wargaming. Cant have it both ways, either strict on piracy or not. If that was to happen then there is a chance of changing something. to produce a 45 dollar marine squad it cost 5 bucks, sure. We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process.. So as far as Im concerned welcome to freakin reality; where everything is as shodily made as they can get away with and consumers will seek in the inevitable tug of war to get the most value for the very sacrifice of their lives for the slim hope that they might spend some of it in enjoyable repast. Shall I summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails, milord? Its even happened with the newer hobbit resin models that are supposedly of better quality (its nowhere near forgeworld quality). Changed their name many times, now operating via email sending emails with links to the actual catalog. What a bad argument. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. I have no problem doing a massive company like GW out of 40 quid. There is no better way to understand the lousy quality of these recasts than by putting them in front of their originals. That is crazy for such a quality. You stole the right to use that miniature in your games, to paint it and to present it to your friends IRL or on social media. This really rips ma knitting this! @Greg smith : Everyone before me has already said what is correct. You are absolutely right and I agree with you (but I like, and buying, many expensive figures). GW also has a massive network of stores. The figure in the picture (Nash) Sold 32 uni. Now, companies like Games Workshop are a ethical grey-area for myself, because their business practices/efforts are not in consideration of the gamer (in my opinion). Recasting gives these filthy companies a taste of their own medicine. Ok fair enough, our companies are small and action costs. The above article is, quite frankly, scaremongering. Many RPG fans turn a blind eye to PDFs from defunct publishers, but studiously pay for legitimate PDFs from current publishers seeing the former as preserving the history of the hobby. As in Id pay the IP holder for this if a legit copy was available, but since the company is gone/author is dead/etc. We cant do anything but have thought experiments because unlike other companies, GW wont discuss the affects of recasting and no one has published any kind of reasonable peer reviewed study. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . You have entered an incorrect email address! There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. CCoN has lower inventory variety and higher cost, but he's cheapest when he has a sale and it's really good quality. Despite every measure taken, with the evolution of websites and social networks, recasting has become nearly unstoppable. Wait how is this killing the hobby ? Those are the nice guys who brought us age of sigmar, which made great armys obsolete and huge investmenst of time and money into them void. A model is too expensive in your opinion and dont worth the money? What about sculptors that, due to their skill got pay really good money, what about shopfloor operatives, what about other staff, customer service bills etc. The more people there are who are anticipating the reveal of new stuff are there because there is an established community and it only gets better the bigger the community is. Do they source their injection molds from Australian materials and Mexican labor? Their prices are so small that nobody in the world could copy their figurines. You arent using a recaster, he is using you. Some companies sell their original 28mm figures for less than 1.50 yet other companies sell theirs for 8. And dont forget about the spacedwarfs aka squats. But if they got a fund together and I am sure there are enough lawyers between hobbyists that can support it pro bono. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. But I can spend 25-30 on a recast and its perfect first time. This also amounts to stealing somebody elses work. Believe it or not, this industry grows out of passion and love, the same we pour on every project on our workbench. You stole it. All rights reserved. Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. It is very bad quality, hard plastic etc. Yes. Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as$6 a month on Patreon! A movement has started to help raise awareness about the loss of income these folks have started to experience recently. Rules Recaster Z is the lowest cost and - #171951649 added by manollette at Desu Korps of Kreig 21 2019 Games Workshop Warhammer 40k Ork Boyz $40 A recasting catalog 2/2/18 A recasting catalog 2/2/18. As Infringements Assistant, you will assist with all things relating to infringements. You say illegal a lot. Look at Rackham from 10 years ago. As evidenced with comments, for a lot of folk price is the issue and they will choose alternative, albeit poor quality. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. All I can say is that the metal quality is horrible. With those numbers the hobby will never die, thats amazing! Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. From the beginning thought of a new model in their head to putting it on paper, and into real life. I have about 400 original models and tons of scenery stuff etc so ive spent a fortune. I would say though that what you talk about is a different topic to what we are discussing in this post. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. These artists work hard. Let us know in the comments of ourFacebook Hobby Group,and make sure youenter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! Is it okay to create my own miniatures if they are not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on? . Check out their full message on their Facebook page. All of my recasts are better quality that forgeworkd or other manufacturers. I bet you steal music and movies. They tried to grow way too fast and their main game had waaay to many units and thus huge costs to cover it. The price of the cinema these days is ridiculous. Of course, cheaper things are always more attractive, but it comes back to the principle of supporting your local business. I thought he was describing forge world quality there for a second. New 40k, AoS, & More: GWs Release Preview LATEST, Orks & Christmas Bundle White Dwarf November 2018. It is our aim to be an inclusive and wholesome place for all. produce in the country you sell in and not in china.. then we can talk until then you get what you deserve! Who does GW employ? The vast, vast majority of the models I buy are genuine GW products, but there gets a point where Im not going to spend 30 for each and every additional model in an army, which become often unusable in game as rules get re-released with almost each passing year. Too draconian prices. Z Catalog Recast. No one has put more indie model firms out of business than GW. I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. Like any economic entity, they need to obey the law of supply and demand ACROSS their customer base. @Greg. Since GW is in China, they are rocking hard, privateer press and corvus belli also understood that, so instead of making your products unavailable for some countries like this one, you should learn to work with them instead, because like it or not, they always find a way in, and as said earlier, its not from the one you think. why is it that if I spend 70 on a primarch from forgeworld, I have to send at least 3 or 4 of those parts back to be exchanged because of mould slips or just general terrible casting and I will likely have to return one of the replacements they send me too. Did you complain about the Starbucks/Amazons/other tax dodgers? Mainly Forgeworld and resin copies of Games Workshop plastic kits. 33% of the original, and with a positive experience in my pocket Im more likely to stick into the hobby, which means more long term profits. Greedy company? Prisons are filled with thieves. But in the past 2 years their stock has sky rocketed. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. Reply . Somone else will reinvent a more reasonable wheel. These artists may not be local, but they are the ones putting all of their time and effort into bringing you these wonderful creations, only to be outdone by a random recaster. Its about supporting companies that support your interests by creating models and figures you enjoy. Tbh I wish there was a quality metal recaster of late 90s early 2000s WFB, or that gw would just sell the moulds/ip so I could get the models I want. Great article, it is a fair fight and I am seriously pleased to see this being taken seriously, even in the comments section. #22 to #20 - manollette . . But some of our niche names might disappear over night. The person being greedy here is you. The models they had to sculpt digitally and then cast in a way they would both fit in the box, and be easy to mass produce. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. They should be 30% of that and maybe nobody would copy that. Its partly to do with inflation, but mostly due to the declining numbers of people going. Judge yourselves. Recasts and piracy, in general, is suddenly on the rise across the hobby as a whole, as other manufacturers and independent artists are also starting to take a hit. The quality is just as good as forgeworld, sometimes you need to add a little greenstuff though but the same goes with forgeworld models. Adding on to what Shane Rozzell have said and more direct. They are very complicated to clean, and with a lot of burrs. This would be paradoxal. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars creating their cast presses for the units. Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. There are many families, people and brands that struggle hard every day to bring you new and spectacular figures and products. You stole the rights to that model. Nice article, only preaching to converted. people who dont play a game ultimately kill the game/hobby. Even so, I think this issue began with Chinese copies of Forgeworld references. Seriously, if you received the package and looked at it carefully, you would understand what we are talking about. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. Especially when taken out of context or without a clue of whats going on here Sure there are Chinese recasters, unfortunately I hate to break it to you, but all of the biggest and well known recasts world wide produced here are made by westerners Bummer. Now it raise an other thing literally pissing me off if I may, due to that misinformation, we legit hobbyist/painters in China are also punished with blatant racism by most of the European brands (especially those from Spainsorry guys). We exploit our environment by our very nature and capitals need for constant continual acceleration in exploitation was never sustainable to start with. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. You guys do a great job on this site/blog. You retard, that was already included in the measurement. Suffer in the worst way possible. That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . There's several recasters that operate based on email, and the subreddit posts reviews of their products. Bollocks. What do you think of the latest Warhammer recaster to get shut down by Games Workshop ? Its not difficult to find recasts, or at least, know where to look for them. As a former game store employee I will say this: the amount of players that get discouraged from even trying to enter the hobby because of GWs prices makes me sad (it is a lot). Its common knowledge, but still kind of a secret. Some of the casts I have bought would struggle to be used as scenery they are that bad. Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. In addition, as you will see later, the casting is not good and irregular surfaces of material are very evident. Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. Games Workshop wont disappear. GW rant incoming: I agree with buying recasts only when it is GW. Thanks for the guys who give chance for better value and access to minis that I will never otherwice will be able to buy. A lot of resin has to be removed, rectified and even replaced with putty. There are sticky areas and others that are shiny showing where the resin has not properly cured because of a bad preparation mixture. All names, trademarks, and images are copyrighted by their respective owners. Why, then, does FW (who run a much smaller operation, fewer employees, use silicon moulds rather than the hundred thousand pound plastic ones) charge 40 for a box of 10 Krieg Troopers? or have you forgotten about the atrocious quality that was Citadel Finecast, here despite the shit quality we still saw an increase in price. You think they magically pump out miniatures at just the cost of supplies you are an idiot. These companies do not pay any IP rights. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. I mean, yes, you have to pay sculpting, designing, producingBut after a certain amount of models sold, the rest is profit. Also several Rackham miniatures. GW going out of business would be the best thing in the world for the hobby. 256. r/Warhammer40k. That is the price ofany original model. Dont get confused. The models chosen are both from Forgeworld, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the classic Lietpold the Black. The manufacturer isnt benefiting from this situation either. OK, rightful, dont buy it, but if you buy from a recast is like steal the model. I am relatively new to the hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from each side. Another army made unplayable. Just as with Lietpold, the amount of resin and burrs it has is endless, making it especially difficult to find out what belongs to the model and what is left over. View, download or. The arguments here are simple white knighting and emotional, there is no one actually willing to discuss anything or addressing recasting. And thats what will happen if recasts become a thing. But if we want to talk about greed; innefficient capital structures like the massive litigious company games workshop has become cant talk and the average human animal forced into a capitalistic system also cant be blamed. At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. The one kit, the producers knew was a more elite unit and that people were likely to buy one or two of at most, the other a basic infantry squad and that people were more likely to need a decent handful of. Ah yes, Im so sorry messer, I apologize that the serfs are becoming so uppity as to assume that they might be able to afford some enjoyment in their pitiful lives. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. For the good health of our hobby. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). I hope the author never watches streaming movies or mp3s. Save Money On All These Alternative Miniatures. Not the original miniature companies. After games workshops 150 million EXTRA prophit in 2018 Im not sure that recasting is harming the hobby in the slightest. You are completely right about this. Illegal sellers proliferate on second-hand portals, ebay, e-mail contacts and even mobile aplications for peer to peer trading. Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few! DVD prices havent gone down. Prices go up. We just make claims. I just bought Dreadnought with 2 sets of weapons and I paid > 100 EUR. Both have exactly the same parts. Virginia Restless, Miniature Painter & Cat Dad. All that artistic work, ranging from concept, development, sculpting, marketing or quality control, has a price. You will create reports for the business to be discussed at monthly infringement meetings. Here's his speech in full to read all at once. Lets look at Netflix, people didnt think streaming would have as big of an effect as it did as before that everyone blamed everything on pirating. But, from my experience, smaller manufactures like Andrea, and Pegaso, and Scibor, and Blacksmith, etc. Genestealer Cult, Ad Mech & Eldar Top The 40k Army Lists. People who use recast try to paint GW as the bad guy and the others that protect GW dont want to have a conversation or rationalize their thoughts. However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . See our, and recently hired an infringements assistant. Thank you for your inputs Rusty! Even so, this work is not enough to come even close to the original. One must ask whats in the customers best interest? Recasting is a side effect of greedy companies or individuals that take hobby members for granted. But good way to name and shame yourself, although I doubt there is any shame there. Things like Kodi make it seem harmless oh you clicked a few buttons and bingo it is there without any effort, so it must be harmless. Speaking strictly GW, it is hard to say what effect recasting is having. This sort of effect makes even more sense in model games, particularly WH. Tripling the quarterly profits isnt exactly telling me that they are covering costs and slowly expanding. We are saying to watch out for recasts of other artists personal work. But Netflix absorbed a lot of people, including the extremely low population of pirates, who just wanted a reasonable price for what they wanted. And when issues of copyright are at stake, it fascinates me how Nuts planets are ripping off HBO with game of thrones piracy, yet they are the most in vogue celebrated manufacturer. Yes recasts are stealing IP but until GW treats us in a respectable manner, they garner no respect from us and therefore I couldnt care less about their IP. Try again. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. Their miniatures are good-quality. Recast popularity reflects that or they would not keep popping up. It looks all of you here have enough money to afford 300 pounds a month to spend on models. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. However, basically its the same piece, without any add-ons, so it works to do the comparison. Salaries of their employees are probably atrociousand, above all, they undermine the business of proper companies endangering their countinuity. The assumption that any money spent on recasts would have gone to GW is incorrect. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. Blaming the pirates did not work for the music or film industries, it will not work here either. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Your supporting a criminal enterprise plain and simple which is slowly killing the hobby will these re casters spend time and money designing rule books and fluff? Thats despicable. For a better comparison, I have cleaned all the copies of excess resin and plastic. Case in point: One miniature, slightly more detailed than a normal marine: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Games-Workshop-Warhammer-40k-Space-Marine-Commander/107298737?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1239&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42423897272&wl4=pla-51320962143&wl5=1019313&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113137378&wl11=online&wl12=107298737&wl13=&veh=sem Whos being the thief? Recasting isnt a side effect of greedy companies, I have known some companies unable to meet rent and worse still some have gone out of business. I mean even though its hella shady its much easier to just buy a cheaper version of the model even if its a knockoff. And its not more acceptable if its one of your friends or idols who did it (remember a particular space wolf bust?). I perfectly understood is time wasted, but something in me hope you understood the type of scum you and your friend are. Everyone knows about them. Its material has still some margin for manipulation, as opposed to the one in the recast copy. In addition to this, the flat parts are not flat by any (ANY) means. No it is killing the cinema. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. Imo it tells me that they severely overprice their products for maximum GP. Finally, are you sure you arent a recaster? Recommended Products For The Miniatures Hobby! Just saying, this argument is fail. LET THEM sink. If you happen to know of any second hand recast seller, or on-line store selling these fake products, we encourage you to contact the corresponding company affected so they can take proper measures against it. But imo GW are flogging its customers for all its worth while things are good. Youre obviously not using a good recaster, also you havent mentioned the cheap cost of resin and how much profit is made on resin models. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for "Forge World" than last week at this time. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. It's generally frowned upon. The surfaces are very rough, have lots of pores and bubbles, there are important burr steps or details covered by extra resin. Anyone reading this would be excused from thinking that any cheap kits from a country other than china are OK. GW can produce, package, sculpt, advertise etc a box of Cadian Shock Troops for 20. I have to necro a bit here. enter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! How many of us would not be hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW? After all, they also pay the same fees and have lots of competition. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. Ads and content, Ad and content measurement, audience insights and development! 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